Boiler Query

[kev2021]

The heat link is wired to boiler But the nest display where you can change it on the unit etc is wireless via threads to the heat link.

I looked at the Hive system as I quiet liked the display etc BUT it cannot be wired, it runs via batteries and I didn’t want to have to keep replacing batteries.  The nest heat link has 2 batteries and run from power also so batteries are effectively a backup for power outages etc is my understanding, but could be wrong.

It’s just strange as the nest-e been working fine until recently… I’m partly thinking its the programmer as every time power goes out now it go to asking for time, date, year etc… it seems to remember the times I set it to come on/go off but it seems that isn’t being used until I set the time/date/year etc.

Previously the power would go out and it was fine but now it doesn’t keep it any more.  I’ve looked but I don’t see any mention of a battery anywhere.  I just says if power is off more than 3hrs, you need to reset the time/date etc but it’s not been off for more than a few minutes so unsure why its prompting.  It maybe as simply as the programmer has gone faulty and I need to replace it but not sure.

Plus it seems Nest isn’t able to control the boiler even when it is on as not going to the set temp so half of me things – its the programmer, once it is set then it behaves, another part of me things, maybe it’s the nest-e….

Thanks for link, will take a look at that and see if its compatible/will work if I don’t get anywhere with the Nest-E / programmer.

Kev

Share the knowledge

You need to login in order to vote

[UK Sentinel]

Did you try turning power off ?

Share the knowledge

In a completely sane world, madness is the only freedom (J.G.Ballard).

You need to login in order to vote

[kev2021]

Hi,

Power has been going off to whole place so yes, it’s done it at least once the past 3 days, all power to property goes out for anywhere up to a few mins and then its back on and everything comes back up etc.

Nest link shows a green LED when you press it which indicates connected to know knowledge, if it’s blue then it has lost connection and needs re-setting up /pairing so that all looks ok, I’m kind of thinking its the programmer in the boiler not accepting any settings until it has day/time etc.

I have a nest protect (smoke detector) and that has a battery back up so remains online.  Weirdly the other day it was showing OFF and when checking status it had orange icon next to WIFI but I could access it from my mobile and when I connect to my router, it shows it connected so bit odd, it has since corrected itself and shows online and all ok.

That keeps a history of power failures so hence I can tell when it goes out.

power failure has occurred minimum of once for 5 out of the last 7 days, for no more than a few mins each time.

Looks to be the downside of getting power overhead as opposed to underground :(  it’s never been like this, usually it happens once every few months as a rough average.

I wonder if they will start to run power cables underground rather than overhead.. have to see if I can find if any plans to do that.

Kev

Share the knowledge

You need to login in order to vote

[UK Sentinel]

That is a shame, time to look at alternatives (Programmer – Honeywell)

Share the knowledge

In a completely sane world, madness is the only freedom (J.G.Ballard).

You need to login in order to vote

[kev2021]

Been looking at this some more as recently the programmer in my boiler no longer keeps the date/time etc when power goes out and it appears to have no battery in it so if there is one, it isn’t replaceable so downside is now, when power goes out and comes back on, the Nest is unable to control the boiler at all until the date/time on the programmer is set.

So after length discussions, I’ve decided to get a timer loop connector to effectively unplug the programmer int eh boiler, plug in the timer loop and then let Nest control the heating 100% from its schedule and then just try and iron out any anomalies i.e turning on of a night etc..

Kev

Share the knowledge

You need to login in order to vote

[UK Sentinel]

kev2021 wrote:

when power goes out and comes back on, the Nest is unable to control the boiler at all until the date/time on the programmer is set.
Kev

That is interesting that Nest requires boiler programmer to be working/set in order to work correctly

Do you have that many power cuts ?

 

Share the knowledge

In a completely sane world, madness is the only freedom (J.G.Ballard).

You need to login in order to vote

[kev2021]

I generally get them probably once every 3 months ish but can depend on the weather, i think its due to over head cables to my area.  To my house its underground but to the area, its overhead and from looking at google, it implies its weather that causes it as its only out for a few seconds unless very bad weather.

No circuits in consumer unit go off/trip and when its restored after few seconds everything is back up and working so hence I’ve ruled out any appliances etc.

I’ve just ordered a new programmer ad also a timer loop as the programmer is great as I can physically set it and it does what it says on the tin, Nest always seems to try turn on of a night at times which I don’t want so as i managed to get programmer much cheaper that any pries I’ve seen for it, I’ve gone with that so effectively I have 2 options now.  If this one fails/doesn’t work, then I’ll go with the timer loop and let Nest control it all and try and figure out why it sometimes wants to come on in middle of the night or a bit earlier than scheduled.

It’s not just mine, some people online have had the same albeit only for a brief period of time.  For me, i just don’t want to hear the boiler in middle of the night or pay for heating in middle of the night, especially as prices getting high – left my tariff as variable as they pulled the fixed I was considering so will just be what it will be now until prices become more stable or cheaper

Kev

 

Share the knowledge

You need to login in order to vote

[UK Sentinel]

Good to know, so what ‘timer loop connector’ are you looking at ?

Share the knowledge

In a completely sane world, madness is the only freedom (J.G.Ballard).

You need to login in order to vote

[kev2021]

Hi, its the one for my boiler – its very small – it’s basically a molex connector with a wire going from 1 pin into another creating the loop.  From what I can gather, every boiler comes with one as standard BUT if you fit a programmer, then they timer loop is removed and the programmer is fitted in place.

I didn’t fit the programmer, was there when i moved in and no signs of the loop anywhere but it seems if they are fitted when installed, most of the time it is either thrown away or i guess the installer keeps as a quick and easy fix for someone and they can charge for the part.

Part is bit pricey in terms of what it is but got one as a cheap fix but then seen a programmer fairly cheap so got that as well so got 2 options now.

Kev

Share the knowledge

You need to login in order to vote

[UK Sentinel]

kev2021 wrote:

Hi, its the one for my boiler – its very small – it’s basically a molex connector with a wire going from 1 pin into another creating the loop.  From what I can gather, every boiler comes with one as standard BUT if you fit a programmer, then they timer loop is removed and the programmer is fitted in place.

I see and did not know that, does this loop happen via the connectors on the PCB ?

Seems like timer loop if not connected to Programmer, it is a default for always ON/Active ?

Interesting

Share the knowledge

In a completely sane world, madness is the only freedom (J.G.Ballard).

You need to login in order to vote

[kev2021]

It connects into the connector on the boiler, I presume the programmer when set to run mode makes the connection to turn boiler on IF the temp is lower than the thermostat.  If it isn’t set to come on or is not lower than thermostat, the link is unconnected.

The timer loop effectively makes it a perm connection and then relies on a separate programmer to determine when it comes on/off etc.  My boiler has a place for it within the boiler hence it was fitted.

My parents for example, they have a separate programmer (or did) until they moved to Nest and now they rely on Nest for programmer effectively via the schedule.

They are called timer loops or plugin-in timer loop/connector, yo can search them, I found quiet a few but they all silly money really.

If i was an electrician etc I’d be tempted to cut the connector off my faulty programmer and put the wire into the correct slot and connect it and use that as its basically the same thing but I’m not so best to buy proper thing.

I believe I’m ok to take gas cover off boiler and fit as whilst I’m certain not gas certified etc, I’m not messing with any of the actual boiler components, just removing programmer and plugging in the timer loop connector and putting cover back on which they say need to be competent which looking online its as simply as undoing 2 screens, pulling down 2 clips and and pulling the cover towards me and then up and off.  Programmer has 2 connectors – 1 for thermostat and 1 for power, i unplug both and plug timer loop connector into thermostat.  Can’t go wrong as thermostat is 4 pin connector and power is 3 pin connector so unable to get wrong so should take prob 10 mins to do.

I’m probably going to fit the replacement programmer so effectively put the new one in as the old one comes out as its exactly the same unit.

If that doesn’t work, then i got backup plan to use timer loop.  The current timer has lasted approx. 6.5 years so if the replacement lasts as long then I suspect boiler will be close to needing replacing as they estimate combi boiler last on average 15 years.

Also, if they are going to stop gas boiler is 2030, then it might tie in nicely to get a new one fitted before they stop you getting one.

I’ve already looked online and it seems lots are now making gas / hydrogen ready boilers.  Not 100% sure how it works but i saw a video approx. 1 year old saying you fit it, it runs on gas, then when you switch to hydrogen, it costs approx. £100 to swap out 3 parts in the boiler to make it work with hydrogen and your good to go so sems a viable option to me rathe than heat pumps etc.

Kev

Share the knowledge

You need to login in order to vote

[UK Sentinel]

kev2021 wrote:

Also, if they are going to stop gas boiler is 2030, then it might tie in nicely to get a new one fitted before they stop you getting one.

That is exactly my plan if GAS prices revert to what they where previously and as you say, most boilers should by then be more suitable for hydrogen also. (I hope).

Heat pumps are interesting and still waiting to see if any descent subsidies will be available nearer the time, as larger radiators maybe required also etc.

Gas Safe (Corgi) rules as attached, I have replaced the PCB on my Baxi once as it is just connectors, Boiler decided to brake down over Xmas one time and getting Engineer quickly was a nightmare, so I did it myself.

Decorative casing can be removed by the consumer (us) but some cases also form a seal between the combustion chamber and burner etc. then case cannot be removed by consumer.

Share the knowledge

Attachments:

1. who-can-legally-work-on-a-gas-appliance-factsheet.pdf

In a completely sane world, madness is the only freedom (J.G.Ballard).

Liked by:

You need to login in order to vote

[Author]

Posts