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As @black-bird has mentioned, the new DSL-AX82U looks and feels like the old DSL-AC68U and the same as most modern ASUS RT Routers also which we all prefer.
THE DSL-AC88U was not good
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Fantastic, thank you, that makes isolating any issues so much easier if general QoS doesn’t seem to be coping with something.
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Has there been any new news on SIN 498 compliance status?
No ASUS DSL appliance has ever been BT SIN498 MCT approved, my last conversation with ASUS with regards to the DSL-AX82U and SIN498 MCT approval last year was that there is no plan for the DSL-AX82U to be tested
But we can hope one day ASUS may change there mind
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Strange, I had wanted to find current details but 498 is missing from https://www.bt.com/about/sinet/sins/downloads Edit: found it on Openreach Any particular stand out products for an alternative with fairly equivalent hardware and QoS features?
The only AX modem/router combo that is as good is the Fritz!Box 7530 AX,
Each unit have there positives and negatives and I thought there was a Netgear AX Modem/Router also, but cannot find it, or I imagined there was one
Edit, alas I looked last year but could not find the latest list of approved BT SIN 498 approved devices
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Thank you, I’ve seen you post over many years now and value your experience.
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Thank you, I’ve seen you post over many years now and value your experience.
Thank you, that is nice to hear and for you to say so publically
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I have gone through the SIN 498 MCT and I believe there have been some misunderstandings spreading online for some time about it –
Obligatory; I Am Not A Lawyer But –
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“This Suppliers’ Information Note (SIN) provides details relevant to Communications
Providers (CPs) regarding connectivity and interfaces.”“The detailed technical requirements for CP provided modems are defined in Section 3
of this document and the related test descriptions required to demonstrate compliance
to these requirements are defined in Annex A.
The terms and conditions associated with the communication and deployment of those
network changes can be found within the GEA Contracts which are available from
http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/superfastfibreaccess/contracts/sffacontracts.do
CPE connected to Openreach’s network will be expected to be upgraded to remain
compliant with the evolving Openreach network, as reflected in changes to this SIN.”CP = Communications Providers (these are not End Users, but ISP’s etc providing services on mass to end users).
CPE = Customer Premises Equipment (this is in the context of having been supplied by the CP in all except one instance noted later)
EU = End Users (The customer purchasing the connection for their abode)
SIN = Suppliers’ Information Note
MCT = Modem Conformance Test“1.2.1
…
CPs should also be aware of the following:
Where Openreach has provided the modem, daily status reports will be
generated and transmitted consisting of no more than 8k bytes (64k bits) of
data upstream at full line rate. These flows will take priority over EU data. The
impact clearly depends on the VDSL2 traffic rate at the time”“2.1.3.2 CP added tags
…
EU CPE such as set top boxes (STB) and PCs may add X-tags in the upstream
direction and these will be transported transparently through to the CP. An
exception to this is tag 0 which will be removed by Openreach (see section 2.2.3
– Upstream priority marking – for more detail).”The quote immediately above is relevant as it is the one and only time “EU CPE” appears in the entire document. There is also no occurrence of any longer form such as “End User CPE” or the initialism being written out completely in full.
“2.1.8 Intermediate Agent / DHCP Relay Agent
Where PPPoE is detected, additional tags will be inserted into the upstream flow
(PADI) by the Intermediate Agent (IA) in the DSLAM. Any existing tags of the same
type from the CPE will be overwritten. The IA tags will be removed by the DSLAM
in the downstream direction (i.e. from the PADO, PADS messages).”“2.2.4 Modem UNI Port Loopback Testing
Test and diagnostic action may require an Ethernet port loopback to be applied to the
modem VDSL2 port in order to loop downstream traffic back upstream to the
Openreach test head or CP test head. These tests will interrupt upstream traffic from
the EU and should therefore only be enabled with the EU’s consent. The EU must also
agree to stop any downstream Multicast Service traffic and power off their Set Top Box
if they have one, as any”“2.4 CP Provided Modem Product Variant
Openreach have introduced a GEA-FTTC product variant that allows the CP to provide
and be responsible for the user’s VDSL2 modem. Typically, this modem will be
integrated with IP gateway functionality within a single device and connected to a
single mains power source. CPs or their EUs will be responsible for maintaining the
firmware of their modems and monitoring their connectivity and performance, typically
via a TR-069 [19]
interface using CPE WAN Management Protocol (CWMP).
The CP provided modem and filtering devices must meet the requirements of this
specification in order to provide reliable operation and to avoid harm to other VDSL2
lines sharing the same cable binder. Openreach reserves the right to withhold or limit
service where potential violation of the Access Network Frequency Plan (ANFP) [9]
or impact to another customers’ service is detected.“They reserve the right to remove your service if your equipment is causing problems with their network or other customers, this would apply to any equipment and is a generic catch all for any kind of service that is highly common in T&C’s or EULAS, allowing them to ban you at-will for behaviour they deem harmful or disruptive. However, this does not require the EU’s own equipment to have passed the certification defined by this document in the first place, that requirement only appears to be if it is CP provided equipment (for mass distribution).
As such this is not really any more demanding for an End User than if their completely SIN 498 MCT certified modem developed a fault, had a bad flash or they reconfigured the hardware or software themselves out of spec.Hopefully this will put some at ease a little as so long as there is no actual disruption from your modem (stability adjustment settings could cause this, defaults should be fine), there is no grounds for it to be removed simply for being discovered on the line as a non-certified product, you are not bound by the rest of this Communications Provider oriented agreement and required to be using a certified product as they are.
As such I can completely understand why Asus has not been applying for SIN 498 validation, they’re not seeking distribution via CP’s, and are ok with handling any issues that come up themselves, or their users facing what would almost certainly only be temporary restrictions or removal from the network until the issue was resolved (though that could in the worst case mean replacing the device if it couldn’t be made to comply).
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“The Communications Provider shall mark the Openreach termination point on a fire
retardant wooden backboard with a footprint of 90mm x 115mm with allowance of at
least 45 mm for cable entry into the bottom edge of the termination”This just further reinforces that Communications Providers are not the End User’s / aka general public buying the service.
“2.9.1
…
For compatibility reasons, CPs providing their own modem CPE are also
required to implement this functionality in their modem devices.”“3. CPE Requirements For GEA over VDSL2
This section defines the requirements of CP provided modems that must be met for
connection to Openreach User Network Interface (UNI). These requirements include
logical functions within the CPE necessary to support and maintain Openreach services
delivered over GEA-FTTC”“4. CPE Requirements For FTTC GEA over ADSL2plus (OPTIONAL)
This section defines the requirements of CP provided modems that must be met for
connection to Openreach User Network Interface (UNI) for FTTC GEA over
ADSL2plus. These requirements include logical functions within the CPE necessary
to support and maintain Openreach services delivered using FTTC GEA over
ADSL2plus.”“Annex A Test Requirements for GEA over VDSL2
This Annex provides a detailed breakdown of the modem conformance test (MCT)
requirements to enable a piece of vendor CPE to be validated against the CPE
Requirements defined in Section 3 of this document.”Please take care not to quote this entire gigantic post if replying ;-) I am sorry the (more) tags offered by the toolbar do not appear to work.
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This is most comprehensive and thank you, I have decided you must work for ASUS
Interestingly, DrayTek take a different interpretation to the BT SIN 498 Standard. I have assumed over the years that it is a rule that they do not enforce unless the device in question is causing an issue, then the service can be terminated etc. (much like what you have stated, but from a slightly different viewpoint).
——–
Is it mandatory to use SIN 498 compliant products?
Yes; BT Openreach provide almost all VDSL lines in the UK (for all ISPs) and they do require the use of SIN498 approved devices. You are expected to have an approved device on the line in order that they can monitor performance/stability and in the event of any reported fault/problem so that they can eliminate any unknown hardware as being the cause. SIN 498 testing ensures that devices provide adequate performance a large variety of line types and varying line quality and comply with all requirements and features within the specification.——–
https://www.draytek.co.uk/information/our-technology/bt-sin-498
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Indeed hard times and ‘consultants’ are always under appreciated.
Great topic and thanks for the insights, I remember from the DSL-AC68u days, I encouraged a neighbour to purchase the DSL-AC68U and after some disconnects and calling out out a BT OPENreach Engineer, my neighbour via the engineer was asked to remove the DSL-AC68U ?
But Yes, ASUS can get away with non-compliance within its products, it is up to the customer as to whether they will respect BT’s efforts to make sure the DSL network in the UK works for all and is in there control
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